Cathy Byrne is wrong about education must be secular
State school students have come home from religious instruction classes believing they would “burn in hell” or be “eaten by the devil”, according to a new book on secular education in Australia.
The author, Cathy Byrne, a Southern Cross University research program manager, argues Queensland now has the least secular education system in Australia, in contrast with 19th-century state regulations restricting restricting religious instruction to before or after school hours. Byrne by using the words "19th-century state regulations" is seeking to do what many southerners did in the Daylight saving debate; namely turn back your clocks and lives as you enter Queensland.
In a chapter on her research on Queensland, Byrne says six children from five schools reported “burn in hell” comments. One parent she interviewed about religious instruction classes said: “My child believed everything he was being told, including that he would burn in hell.” Six children out of a total of 100,000's thousands of students!
Another parent said: “My son was told he would be eaten by the devil, so we opted him out. Now he sits unsupervised in the staff room with 15 older children – some he is frightened of.” But can you believe atheistic parents who may intentionally warp feedback like the Toowoomba man who wanted to stop Chaplaincy in Qld.
“One student told her parents after the 2012 whole-of-school assembly that she can ‘no longer enjoy Christmas because she hasn’t been saved by Jesus’," the book says." The author of this report should also report a child's confusion on other matters also; maths, social science, language. Confusion does occur in children's minds.
The author, Cathy Byrne, a Southern Cross University research program manager, argues Queensland now has the least secular education system in Australia, in contrast with 19th-century state regulations restricting restricting religious instruction to before or after school hours. Byrne by using the words "19th-century state regulations" is seeking to do what many southerners did in the Daylight saving debate; namely turn back your clocks and lives as you enter Queensland.
In a chapter on her research on Queensland, Byrne says six children from five schools reported “burn in hell” comments. One parent she interviewed about religious instruction classes said: “My child believed everything he was being told, including that he would burn in hell.” Six children out of a total of 100,000's thousands of students!
Another parent said: “My son was told he would be eaten by the devil, so we opted him out. Now he sits unsupervised in the staff room with 15 older children – some he is frightened of.” But can you believe atheistic parents who may intentionally warp feedback like the Toowoomba man who wanted to stop Chaplaincy in Qld.
“One student told her parents after the 2012 whole-of-school assembly that she can ‘no longer enjoy Christmas because she hasn’t been saved by Jesus’," the book says." The author of this report should also report a child's confusion on other matters also; maths, social science, language. Confusion does occur in children's minds.
Another parent spoke of how her son ‘was told he would burn in hell by the child of the RI instructor. Later, that child sharpened a pencil and stabbed him in the groin and chest ...’ ”
The context of this comment above is not supplied in the article by the Guardian. The atmosphere of the room etc. The fact that the child attacked an adult should not be listed in this article as it clearly shows that the child has ongoing issues and violence. The RE teacher would have been notified by the teacher of various issues with students. The inclusion of this incident is purely inflammatory to say the least. This reflects the union and not common sense. The Tasmania teachers union slammed children from a Christian School protesting about new abortion laws, while at the same time, the union had childrne promoting and being used in support of Gonski in 2013.
Marg Pethiyagoda, Education Queensland’s acting assistant director general, said comments about people burning in hell would not be allowable in religious instruction and the department was unaware of such remarks being made. Most likely because perhaps parents made it up!
Byrne, who has a PhD in the sociology of religion education and a masters in religious studies, outlines the examples in her book, Religion in Secular Education: What, in Heaven’s Name, are we Teaching our Children? Unfortaunately it appears as if the author needs to read more widely, as Christian parents would also ask the same question, as this is the reason why they are deserting the public system in droves. Even non-Christian parents place their children in Religious schools for moral teaching and discipline.
The names of the schools – mostly in Brisbane – were not disclosed on the grounds that parents feared reprisals for speaking out. What sort of reprisals? Answer is because they were lying to Byrne. Is this research or gossip? The danger of parents self-reporting?
In an interview, Byrne said parents who complained to state education departments were often told the religious instruction programs were the responsibility of the local principals. But some principals were “quite religious”, she said, and parents who had concerns did not feel they got a good hearing. This is because atheists want to control the world for everybody else, they want to rule what is taught and what is not taught, they see themselves as right.
Byrne said the reported “burn in hell” comments were consistent with themes she had heard in her previous research and discussions. “It’s a very common circumstance,” she said, “which is quite disturbing given the fact we have a multi-faith and supposedly secular education system, except in Queensland.”
Marg Pethiyagoda, Education Queensland’s acting assistant director general, said comments about people burning in hell would not be allowable in religious instruction and the department was unaware of such remarks being made. Most likely because perhaps parents made it up!
Byrne, who has a PhD in the sociology of religion education and a masters in religious studies, outlines the examples in her book, Religion in Secular Education: What, in Heaven’s Name, are we Teaching our Children? Unfortaunately it appears as if the author needs to read more widely, as Christian parents would also ask the same question, as this is the reason why they are deserting the public system in droves. Even non-Christian parents place their children in Religious schools for moral teaching and discipline.
The names of the schools – mostly in Brisbane – were not disclosed on the grounds that parents feared reprisals for speaking out. What sort of reprisals? Answer is because they were lying to Byrne. Is this research or gossip? The danger of parents self-reporting?
In an interview, Byrne said parents who complained to state education departments were often told the religious instruction programs were the responsibility of the local principals. But some principals were “quite religious”, she said, and parents who had concerns did not feel they got a good hearing. This is because atheists want to control the world for everybody else, they want to rule what is taught and what is not taught, they see themselves as right.
Byrne said the reported “burn in hell” comments were consistent with themes she had heard in her previous research and discussions. “It’s a very common circumstance,” she said, “which is quite disturbing given the fact we have a multi-faith and supposedly secular education system, except in Queensland.”
Byrne is just a mouth for the union. Who said education must be secular? Why should religious children be treated with such disregard?
Byrne said Australian education authorities should follow the lead of other countries and no longer “segregate [students] in a very old-fashioned and 19th-century manner” with different religious instruction classes based on religious denominations. Students should together learn about different religions and beliefs, she said. Yet segregation is the choice of the parent. The responsibility lies with the parent.
“In this modern world, children are going to have to be able to deal with people who have very different ideas and beliefs than they have, in ways that are peaceful and respectful.”
Byrne said Australian education authorities should follow the lead of other countries and no longer “segregate [students] in a very old-fashioned and 19th-century manner” with different religious instruction classes based on religious denominations. Students should together learn about different religions and beliefs, she said. Yet segregation is the choice of the parent. The responsibility lies with the parent.
“In this modern world, children are going to have to be able to deal with people who have very different ideas and beliefs than they have, in ways that are peaceful and respectful.”
The above quote should also be applied to the complaining parents as they seem to be having the greatest problem here in accepting different ideas.
Education Queensland said it did not collect data on participation rates in religious instruction in state schools, but the religious instructor was “responsible for delivering only the program authorised by the faith group being represented”.
Education Queensland’s policy is to allow up to one hour of weekly religious instruction, provided by a minister of a religious denomination or society or an accredited representative, for students enrolled as members of that religious denomination or society.
Parents must have the option of withdrawing their students from such classes, with the school asked to arrange alternative activities for the time their peers are in religious instruction.
Asked about safeguards, Pethiyagoda said a religious leader was “responsible for determining the criteria necessary – for example, training, qualifications, etc – for accrediting a representative to become an approved instructor”.
The principal was responsible for ensuring that all religious instructors underwent student protection training and were aware of relevant policies.
“On request from the principal, the religious instruction coordinator is responsible for providing the principal with all program materials used to deliver religious instruction program to ensure that content does not contravene legislation or departmental policy,” Pethiyagoda said in a written response to questions.
Guardian Australia last week reported that the Victorian Education Department had asked principals to check religious instruction policieswere not being breached after a group of parents complained about OAC Ministries conducting religious seminars in state schools. The media trots out OAC as he bad guys all the time.
OAC Ministries – whose presentations often involve puppetry and games – defended its work, saying its members were “Christian evangelists in some settings, but that does not include state schools”.
The release of Byrne’s book comes amid renewed debate over the extent to which religion should be taught in Australian schools.
Kevin Donnelly – one of two people appointed by the federal education minister, Christopher Pyne, to review the national curriculum – has argued that religion should be taught more effectively and did not have enough of a presence in Australia's "very secular curriculum".
“I'm not saying we should preach to everyone, but I would argue that the great religions of the world – whether it's Islam, whether it's Christianity, whether it's Hinduism, Buddhism – they should be taught over the compulsory years of school,” Donnelly told the ABC.
“When you look at parliaments around Australia – they all begin with the Lord's Prayer. If you look at our constitution, the preamble actually talks about God.”
Byrne said she agreed with Donnelly in some respects, but it was disturbing he raised the Lord’s Prayer in parliament as a justification for more religious education, highlighting “the divisive problem of Christian privileging that is part of current programs in Australian schools”.
“Our children deserve a more comprehensive understanding of different religions and non-religious world views,” Bryne said, stressing the importance of developing skills of discernment, critical thinking and respect. Unfortunately Bryne is misleading about the value of other relgious Faiths.
Access Ministries, which provides Christian religious instruction and chaplaincy in Victorian schools, said children benefited from the principles, values and stories explored in special religious instruction.
“We laud the good Samaritan who steps in to help,” said a spokesman for Dawn Penney, the acting chief executive of Access Ministries. “Where is the child going to hear the story of the good Samaritan other than in CRE [Christian religious education]?”
Education Queensland said it did not collect data on participation rates in religious instruction in state schools, but the religious instructor was “responsible for delivering only the program authorised by the faith group being represented”.
Education Queensland’s policy is to allow up to one hour of weekly religious instruction, provided by a minister of a religious denomination or society or an accredited representative, for students enrolled as members of that religious denomination or society.
Parents must have the option of withdrawing their students from such classes, with the school asked to arrange alternative activities for the time their peers are in religious instruction.
Asked about safeguards, Pethiyagoda said a religious leader was “responsible for determining the criteria necessary – for example, training, qualifications, etc – for accrediting a representative to become an approved instructor”.
The principal was responsible for ensuring that all religious instructors underwent student protection training and were aware of relevant policies.
“On request from the principal, the religious instruction coordinator is responsible for providing the principal with all program materials used to deliver religious instruction program to ensure that content does not contravene legislation or departmental policy,” Pethiyagoda said in a written response to questions.
Guardian Australia last week reported that the Victorian Education Department had asked principals to check religious instruction policieswere not being breached after a group of parents complained about OAC Ministries conducting religious seminars in state schools. The media trots out OAC as he bad guys all the time.
OAC Ministries – whose presentations often involve puppetry and games – defended its work, saying its members were “Christian evangelists in some settings, but that does not include state schools”.
The release of Byrne’s book comes amid renewed debate over the extent to which religion should be taught in Australian schools.
Kevin Donnelly – one of two people appointed by the federal education minister, Christopher Pyne, to review the national curriculum – has argued that religion should be taught more effectively and did not have enough of a presence in Australia's "very secular curriculum".
“I'm not saying we should preach to everyone, but I would argue that the great religions of the world – whether it's Islam, whether it's Christianity, whether it's Hinduism, Buddhism – they should be taught over the compulsory years of school,” Donnelly told the ABC.
“When you look at parliaments around Australia – they all begin with the Lord's Prayer. If you look at our constitution, the preamble actually talks about God.”
Byrne said she agreed with Donnelly in some respects, but it was disturbing he raised the Lord’s Prayer in parliament as a justification for more religious education, highlighting “the divisive problem of Christian privileging that is part of current programs in Australian schools”.
“Our children deserve a more comprehensive understanding of different religions and non-religious world views,” Bryne said, stressing the importance of developing skills of discernment, critical thinking and respect. Unfortunately Bryne is misleading about the value of other relgious Faiths.
Access Ministries, which provides Christian religious instruction and chaplaincy in Victorian schools, said children benefited from the principles, values and stories explored in special religious instruction.
“We laud the good Samaritan who steps in to help,” said a spokesman for Dawn Penney, the acting chief executive of Access Ministries. “Where is the child going to hear the story of the good Samaritan other than in CRE [Christian religious education]?”
